Can one lie about age when booking air holiday?

[Mark Hamptons]

Hehe, bit of a weird one this, but my wife and I are going away with my
family and like many people she fibs about her age. They are booking and
paying, so will need her date of birth (DOB) shortly but she doesn't really
want them to know her real age.

1) What are the consequences of lying about your age when booking a
package holiday with a tour operator like Thomas Cook?

2) Do plane tickets have the DOB printed on them? From what I recall,
no.

3) Would the customs people see anywhere that her disclosed DOB is
different to her passport DOB and lead her to trouble, or is it not printed
anywhere on the travel documents that she would carry?

I'm thinking that as long as she hangs onto the passport and my family don't
see it, there will be no problem. But obviously i need your advice as to
the travel problems.

Any advice welcomed, cheers.

Mark

[Mark Hewitt]

Post by Mark Hamptons
Hehe, bit of a weird one this, but my wife and I are going away with my
family and like many people she fibs about her age. They are booking and
paying, so will need her date of birth (DOB) shortly but she doesn't really
want them to know her real age.

It's an easy one really. Just get her to tell them her real date of birth
and stop being so rediculous!

[Mark Hamptons]

That's what I keep telling her! [Only I spell it right when I say it ;)]

Post by Mark Hamptons

Post by Mark Hamptons
Hehe, bit of a weird one this, but my wife and I are going away with my
family and like many people she fibs about her age. They are booking and
paying, so will need her date of birth (DOB) shortly but she doesn't

really

Post by Mark Hamptons
want them to know her real age.

It's an easy one really. Just get her to tell them her real date of birth
and stop being so rediculous!

[Miss L. Toe]

Post by Mark Hamptons
Hehe, bit of a weird one this, but my wife and I are going away with my
family and like many people she fibs about her age. They are booking and
paying, so will need her date of birth (DOB) shortly but she doesn't really
want them to know her real age.
1) What are the consequences of lying about your age when booking a
package holiday with a tour operator like Thomas Cook?

It could well invalidate any inclusive travel insurance element. - Or child
discount :-)

Post by Mark Hamptons
2) Do plane tickets have the DOB printed on them? From what I recall,
no.

Not in my experiance.

Post by Mark Hamptons
3) Would the customs people see anywhere that her disclosed DOB is
different to her passport DOB and lead her to trouble, or is it not printed
anywhere on the travel documents that she would carry?

It 'might' get printed on any Thomas Cook paperwork, but I cant see why
customs would want to see that, unless someone gets caught smuggling
something.

Post by Mark Hamptons
I'm thinking that as long as she hangs onto the passport and my family don't
see it, there will be no problem.

You may find that the 'group leader' gathers up all the passports at checkin
time. Or the checkin agent hands them out to the wrong person.

Post by Mark Hamptons
But obviously i need your advice as to
the travel problems.
Any advice welcomed, cheers.

My advice is Don't lie.

However if she takes an exact 10 years off, or changes an 8 to a 3, it might
be easy to claim it was a typing error.

[Cari]

Post by Mark Hamptons
Hehe, bit of a weird one this, but my wife and I are going away with my
family and like many people she fibs about her age. They are booking and
paying, so will need her date of birth (DOB) shortly but she doesn't really
want them to know her real age.
1) What are the consequences of lying about your age when booking a
package holiday with a tour operator like Thomas Cook?

Denied boarding.

Post by Mark Hamptons
2) Do plane tickets have the DOB printed on them? From what I recall,
no.

No, but its in the booking screen that the check in staff look at when
matching passport details to booking info at check in before issuing the
boarding pass. No match, no boarding pass.

Post by Mark Hamptons
3) Would the customs people see anywhere that her disclosed DOB is
different to her passport DOB and lead her to trouble, or is it not printed
anywhere on the travel documents that she would carry?

She shouldn't be able to get that far, since she won't be issued a boarding
pass.

Post by Mark Hamptons
I'm thinking that as long as she hangs onto the passport and my family don't
see it, there will be no problem. But obviously i need your advice as to
the travel problems.

If she is denied a boarding pass her passport will be stamped 'denied
boarding'. Bit of a problem for all future travel, until a new passport is
obtained. Her DB details can also be shared with all other airlines. If
she wishes to travel, I'd tell her to accept the inevitable. There is no
time machine. We can't stop the passage of time.

Cari

[Mark Hamptons]

That's strange as the tour operator just told me they don't need the DOB
after all, and we don't have to give it (unless we are buying insurance
through them). They also said if given by us optionally, it is only used
for their in-house system and not for the tickets or boarding passes.

I phoned back and spoke to a total of 3 people to check.

Can you substantiate what you are claiming below, or was this a guess?
Thanks.

Mark

Post by Cari

Post by Mark Hamptons
Hehe, bit of a weird one this, but my wife and I are going away with my
family and like many people she fibs about her age. They are booking and
paying, so will need her date of birth (DOB) shortly but she doesn't really
want them to know her real age.
1) What are the consequences of lying about your age when booking a
package holiday with a tour operator like Thomas Cook?

Denied boarding.

Post by Mark Hamptons
2) Do plane tickets have the DOB printed on them? From what I recall,
no.

No, but its in the booking screen that the check in staff look at when
matching passport details to booking info at check in before issuing the
boarding pass. No match, no boarding pass.

Post by Mark Hamptons
3) Would the customs people see anywhere that her disclosed DOB is
different to her passport DOB and lead her to trouble, or is it not printed
anywhere on the travel documents that she would carry?

She shouldn't be able to get that far, since she won't be issued a boarding
pass.

Post by Mark Hamptons
I'm thinking that as long as she hangs onto the passport and my family don't
see it, there will be no problem. But obviously i need your advice as to
the travel problems.

If she is denied a boarding pass her passport will be stamped 'denied
boarding'. Bit of a problem for all future travel, until a new passport is
obtained. Her DB details can also be shared with all other airlines. If
she wishes to travel, I'd tell her to accept the inevitable. There is no
time machine. We can't stop the passage of time.
Cari

[Malcolm Weir]

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:54:13 GMT, "Mark Hamptons"

Post by Mark Hamptons
That's strange as the tour operator just told me they don't need the DOB
after all, and we don't have to give it (unless we are buying insurance
through them). They also said if given by us optionally, it is only used
for their in-house system and not for the tickets or boarding passes.
I phoned back and spoke to a total of 3 people to check.
Can you substantiate what you are claiming below, or was this a guess?

Mark, it's an ill-informed and totally bogus mis-statement.

1. Yes, *if* a business somehow requires a DoB, and you provide a
false one, *then* they may choose to deny you travel if they discover
the error (and they might, or might not; my experience is that they
are unlikely to care enough to discover this). You may then sue the
business, and they may well lose on the basis that they had no grounds
for asking for the information... or not. But by this stage, a lot of
time and money would have passed you by...

2. Most check-in staff check that the names on the ticket, the
reservation, and the travel documents (passport) all match. If there
is some _minor_ difference -- and I mean minor, like "Mike" instead of
"Michael -- they *may* (depending on their rules) choose to look
further, and look at things like DoB. Note that in the case of
families traveling together, sometimes the DoB may be used to
distinguish between, say, "George Bush" the elder and "George Bush"
the younger.

3. Customs are unlikely to give a flying wossname about the
intricacies of her ticket details. They *may* care about the details
of her passport. This is presuming that the deceit is of the
magnitude of a 68 year old person claiming to be 61...

4. If the airline denies her a boarding pass, they won't stamp her
passport. This is a figment of Cari's imagination.

(Anyone with a shred of common sense would understand that; what if
some tour operator *does* accidentally mistype someone's date of
birth?)

Post by Mark Hamptons
Mark

Malc.

[Malcolm Weir]

Post by Cari
If she is denied a boarding pass her passport will be stamped 'denied
boarding'.

It bloody well better NOT be!

There is a MASSIVE difference between a business (the airline)
enforcing its rules, and a state (the issuers, and indeed the owner,
of the passport).

IF some reaches a destination and is denied *entry* by the state at
the destination, that will be recorded in the passport. But an
airline has no business *modifying* a passport for any reason at
all...

Post by Cari
Bit of a problem for all future travel, until a new passport is
obtained. Her DB details can also be shared with all other airlines. If
she wishes to travel, I'd tell her to accept the inevitable. There is no
time machine. We can't stop the passage of time.

I believe, Cari, that you are totally confused.

Post by Cari
Cari

Malc.

[Cari]

Post by Malcolm Weir

Post by Cari
If she is denied a boarding pass her passport will be stamped 'denied
boarding'.

It bloody well better NOT be!

My brother in law's passport WAS stamped Denied Boarding due to British
Airways booking reservations agent putting an incorrect DOB in his booking
(she managed to take ten years off his age). It was over 8 months before he
could sort out the mess, including several visits to legal advice centres, a
new passport etc. He now carries the official letter of apology from BA at
all times.

This was pre-9/11. I imagine things have not slackened off since then
security wise.

Cari

[Really Me]

Cari wrote:>

Post by Cari
My brother in law's passport WAS stamped Denied Boarding due to British
Airways booking reservations agent putting an incorrect DOB in his booking
(she managed to take ten years off his age). It was over 8 months before he
could sort out the mess, including several visits to legal advice centres, a
new passport etc. He now carries the official letter of apology from BA at
all times.
This was pre-9/11. I imagine things have not slackened off since then
security wise.

Maybe security has not slackened off, but I doubt if an airline has a
right to put anything on a passport.

[Lansbury]

Post by Cari
My brother in law's passport WAS stamped Denied Boarding due to British
Airways booking reservations agent putting an incorrect DOB in his booking
(she managed to take ten years off his age). It was over 8 months before he
could sort out the mess, including several visits to legal advice centres, a
new passport etc. He now carries the official letter of apology from BA at
all times.

No airline in the UK is allowed to make an entry in a passport. Only UKIS or
UKPA may do so and for anyone else, including the passport holder, to deface a
passport is an offence. So your advice based on something that happened once
to someone else is way off the mark.

8 months to sort out! 3 weeks to get a new passport which would have to have
been changed anyway as it had been defaced.

-
Lansbury
www.uk-air.net
FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

[Malcolm Weir]

Post by Lansbury

Post by Cari
My brother in law's passport WAS stamped Denied Boarding due to British
Airways booking reservations agent putting an incorrect DOB in his booking
(she managed to take ten years off his age). It was over 8 months before he
could sort out the mess, including several visits to legal advice centres, a
new passport etc. He now carries the official letter of apology from BA at
all times.

No airline in the UK is allowed to make an entry in a passport. Only UKIS or
UKPA may do so and for anyone else, including the passport holder, to deface a
passport is an offence. So your advice based on something that happened once
to someone else is way off the mark.
8 months to sort out! 3 weeks to get a new passport which would have to have
been changed anyway as it had been defaced.

My bet, if Cari is even being entirely honest, is that she is omitting
large chunks of the story.

What this sounds most like to me is a sequence along the lines of:

BA staff incorrectly enter passport details into system check-in.
Passenger arrives at destination country's immigration. Immigration
officer checks passport against "advance clearance" passenger
manifest, notes discrepancy over DoB, and denies entry, marking the
passport "Denied Entry". Passenger spends 8 months yelling at BA and
passport agency in order to get acknowledgement that the issue must
have been BA's fault.

I mean, as a sanity check, how the heck do you even go about *telling*
BA what your DoB is before check-in????? Where, exactly, in the
booking process do they ask?

(Some airlines ask for a passport number, of course...)

Post by Lansbury
Lansbury

Malc.

[Miss L. Toe]

Post by Malcolm Weir

Post by Lansbury

Post by Cari
My brother in law's passport WAS stamped Denied Boarding due to British
Airways booking reservations agent putting an incorrect DOB in his booking
(she managed to take ten years off his age). It was over 8 months before he
could sort out the mess, including several visits to legal advice centres, a
new passport etc. He now carries the official letter of apology from BA at
all times.

No airline in the UK is allowed to make an entry in a passport. Only UKIS or
UKPA may do so and for anyone else, including the passport holder, to deface a
passport is an offence. So your advice based on something that happened once
to someone else is way off the mark.
8 months to sort out! 3 weeks to get a new passport which would have to have
been changed anyway as it had been defaced.

My bet, if Cari is even being entirely honest, is that she is omitting
large chunks of the story.
BA staff incorrectly enter passport details into system check-in.
Passenger arrives at destination country's immigration. Immigration
officer checks passport against "advance clearance" passenger
manifest, notes discrepancy over DoB, and denies entry,

Or even more likely cant reconcile DD/MM/YY and MM/DD/YY in which case there
may never have been any discrepancy :-)

Post by Malcolm Weir
marking the
passport "Denied Entry". Passenger spends 8 months yelling at BA and
passport agency in order to get acknowledgement that the issue must
have been BA's fault.
I mean, as a sanity check, how the heck do you even go about *telling*
BA what your DoB is before check-in????? Where, exactly, in the
booking process do they ask?
(Some airlines ask for a passport number, of course...)

Post by Lansbury
Lansbury

Malc.

[Shawn Hearn]

Post by Mark Hamptons
Hehe, bit of a weird one this, but my wife and I are going away with my
family and like many people she fibs about her age. They are booking and
paying, so will need her date of birth (DOB) shortly but she doesn't really
want them to know her real age.
1) What are the consequences of lying about your age when booking a
package holiday with a tour operator like Thomas Cook?
2) Do plane tickets have the DOB printed on them? From what I recall,
no.
3) Would the customs people see anywhere that her disclosed DOB is
different to her passport DOB and lead her to trouble, or is it not printed
anywhere on the travel documents that she would carry?
I'm thinking that as long as she hangs onto the passport and my family don't
see it, there will be no problem. But obviously i need your advice as to
the travel problems.
Any advice welcomed, cheers.

Why would your wife be asked her age to book travel arrangement? In all
the many times I have booked airline or hotel reservations, not once has
any travel agent, or other travel personnel asked me my age, and I look
very young for my age. The only time age is requested is in applying for
a passport or other official government identification, and when renting
a car, but that's it. In those contexts, lying about one's age may be
considered fraud.

[Mike]

Post by Shawn Hearn
Why would your wife be asked her age to book travel arrangement? In all
the many times I have booked airline or hotel reservations, not once has
any travel agent, or other travel personnel asked me my age, and I look
very young for my age. The only time age is requested is in applying for
a passport or other official government identification, and when renting
a car, but that's it. In those contexts, lying about one's age may be
considered fraud.

The only reason I can see for a tour operator requesting the age of
passengers is: (i) to easily identify children (including those less than 2
years old) and (ii) for their own marketing research.

Mike
www.barebeaches.com
Published June 2004

[Dick Locke]

Post by Shawn Hearn
In all
the many times I have booked airline or hotel reservations, not once has
any travel agent, or other travel personnel asked me my age,

When I lived in Japan about 20 years ago, they had a person's gender
and age on domestic plane tickets. It's the closest they had in Japan
to identifying information because everyone there has the same hair
color and eye color. Driver's licenses don't include those two items.